Deb Liu, CEO @ Ancestry.com
Deb Liu is the CEO of Ancestry.com. She’s had over 18 years of experience leading teams of product managers and engineers at Facebook, PayPal and eBay. Deb is also the founder of Women in Product whose focused on connecting a 17,000 strong community of women builders. They bring together women PMs throughout the tech industry to learn from one another.
In this episode, we spoke with Deb about:
Growing up as one of the few Asian Americans in South Carolina
Choosing when to break expectations to advance in your career
Why what got you to where you are won’t take you where you want to go
… and so much more!
You can listen to her below or wherever else you get to your podcasts.
On growing up in South Carolina as an Asian American
After being born in New York, Deb’s family moved to South Carolina where she spent most of her childhood. Her upbringing was difficult at times, especially considering that she was one of the few Asians in her town.
“I grew up in a town where I was, for many people, the first Asian person they'd ever seen. They would ask where I was from. I’d tell them I was from New York. Then they’d ask, no where are you really from?
Constantly being told you're a foreigner and wearing it every single day of your life wears on you. I grew up being a person who was different from everybody else. People would tease me a lot growing up, they’d egg our house; it was really hard. My upbringing changed the way I look at the world.
I tell my kids these stories, who grew up in California, and they have no idea what I’m talking about. They ask me why people would treat others that way. I don’t know if it was ignorance, or just me being “the other”.
All of this has shaped my Asian identity. Part of me is proud to be who I am, but there are days where I think to myself “being Asian can’t be the only thing I am”.
On changing her internal narrative to overcome imposter syndrome
“One of the things I think about a lot is how to find role models that look like you. We all look for someone who is successful and growing in a place that you want to go. At times I didn’t see many people who looked like me and didn’t really know what success could look like.
I think that led to some level of imposter syndrome, where my inner voice was telling me I was not good enough. That I’m not smart enough. That someone’s going to find me out. I think that’s very dangerous.
I’ve chosen to change that internal talk track. I’ve chosen to say, you know what, I’m not going to an expert in most things, and instead of telling myself I’m not good enough, I’m going to tell myself I’m the best in the room at learning. I’m going to learn faster than a lot of people.
That’s really important for me, especially being somebody who looks different than everybody else in most rooms. Instead of things being your Achilles heel, what if you allow that to be a stepping stone for yourself? Allow your stumbling blocks to your superpowers.”
On the need to adapt to existing systems before creating change
“If we don’t adapt in these systems then there will be no leaders who look like you. I choose not to think about it as ‘assimilation’, I choose to think about it as adaptation. Assimilation is becoming someone else. Adaption is choosing what you change to be a part of something you believe in. Those are different things.
I grew up in a collective society where my parents told me to keep my head down and work really hard. They told me to not raise your hand and speak up too much. That’s not the style of American leadership. What they look for in leaders is someone who’s willing to speak up, tell the truth, and to influence others.
That was against everything I learned growing up. It took me a long time to unprogram what I learned to help me be successful in the workplace. And now that I’m in a leadership position I can change the system. If more people look like you, that gives more opportunity to see leaders that are diverse. But if no one from diverse backgrounds makes it to leadership, then how are ever going to change things?”
On the expectations Asian women face in the workplace
“While reviewing a Harvard Business Study on the different perceptions between men and women in the workplace, they found the following: When men are seen as leaders they're competent. When women are seen as leaders they're competent and warm. Women were found to have this extra requirement of having to be warm. Now there are a certain number of women who are born warm and that's incredible for them. I was not one of those women.
I had to decide what I did with this information. I had to decide if I should adapt to this or not. Is it fair for women to have this extra requirement? Absolutely not. But every time you break expectations, there's a cost you incur when you break them. And as an Asian woman, doubly, you're expected to be warm and sweet and graceful and all these things.
I wish we could break those expectations. I wish we did not have this extra requirement, but in choosing to not adapt to it, I can choose not to be seen as a leader. Because of this, I've chosen to adapt to it. I've chosen to understand what people are looking for and become that leader for them.”
On the differences between the life her parents had in America and her life today
“I hear a lot of stories about when my parents first came to America. How my dad used to eat rice with milk because there was just not enough money for food. I think about this and I realize how far away from that our family is today.
I remember when I got my first paycheck while working at BCG in my first job out of college. When I showed my dad my paycheck he told me that I was making more money at that time as a new college grad then he was, and he was about to retire. He said he was so proud of me. Asian parents rarely say that so you should enjoy it while you can!
As a second-generation immigrant, all of the sacrifices that your parents made reminds you of how different your life could be. We were incredibly fortunate.
I remember a few years ago when my father got sick I was able to put them in a private nursing home. He once held my hand and said ‘thank you’. That was the last thing he ever said to me. I just remember thinking this moment would not have happened if I could not have afforded to put him in this nursing home. This was something my parents could have never done.
Even to this day my husband and I are extremely frugal. We want our kids to have some of that immigrant life. For us, it’s a reminder of the sacrifices our parents have had to make for us to live our lives.”
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Until next time,
Jay and Angie